Even so, there's quite a fixation with the external. That a person wears a suit and has impeccable English doesn't mean he's not a crook, and that a guy wears baggy pants and has tattoos doesn't mean he's a gangbanger.
Judge people individually, not based on stereotypes one way or another. You may be (positively) surprised.
bigsamxl2000 write: an educated black man with morals and good manners=white man wanna be a black thug on the streets with baggy jeans,no job, cornrows, braids, dreadlocks, etc and wife beater(white vest),gold teeth,bling bling all over = Real black man Which one do women prefer? Of course the REAL BLACK MAN.lol.Does it make sense?
Well, BigSam, if what you say is true, there would be no educated, with morals, good manners and good jobs, Black men who could find women interested in them, correct? That would leave people like Colin Powell, Bryant Gumble and Montel Williams SOL wouldn't it? Of course we know that's not the case. Many women are attracted to those types of Black Men.
There's a certain type of woman who prefers a sloppily dressed thug on the street with no job. And the men who fit those characteristices tend to attract those types of women who prefer those things. But she doesn't represent ALL of us.
I guess i'll put my two cents in......
I think that situations vary from case to case. I will not say this is fact, but I feel that some white women think that in order to be accepted by a black man she must become more in tune with what she feels his background or culture is. For example if she is attracted to a thug style male she will assume she must be the steroetypical thug style female thus speaking slang and ebonics, if you will.
The thing is that like someone before said there is no acting, and I agree, but people do seem to adapt to the situations, places, and people they are around. I will respect that if a white woman was always around the slang speaking, hip hop culture then it is a part of who she is.... and think about where she went to school her friends etc... A black male who speaks proper english and has good posture could be accused of acting white lol but once againwe must look deeper before we judge. There are so many ways we can look at this. The simple fact is that if you honestly think about it we all adjust to our surroundings, whether it is the work field, school, or things as simple as the weather climate you wear a jacket when you are cold, and take it off when you are hot...personalities are not all that different.....
Silver1944 write: Hey, Hey Bud - good to see you back on the boards again. It's been awhile. Good post too, hon. We are who we are, even if others "think" we may not be. One should always be true to themself and not try to follow the pack.
Happy Thanksgiving, my dear.
I think you hit the nail on the head , Silver. ;)
We should strive to be leaders rather than followers. ;)
In my WORDS who cares about ACTING because there is no ACTING. I can remember working sales in a retail store and I can recall black women telling me I dont act black cause I speak good english using eye contact or gestures. I like hearing to all types of music including country. In school I was a good speaker in using communication skills. I am not trying to fit into someones group. I am going to keep it real. Be respectful to others. And no-one should tell you who you are on the inside. this is one sterotype that makes no sense.
THIS IS WHO I AM,THIS IS WHAT I BELIEVE IN,
DO WHAT MAKES YOU FEEL GOOD or DO THE RIGHT THING< PEACE
wiseflower30 write: I want to clarifying something in my post ....i was addressing the issue of ACTING and now i shall address communicaion... there are ways u speak to ur closest friends and then there are ways you communicate in the professional field... i believe all cultures have this ... when i'm home and i'm speaking to my parents the West indian comes out ..to an english speaking person this might sound "uneducated" but i'm just in my comfort zone...the same with my friends.. when i'm with my french speaking friends - i speak "quebecois" which is broken french and when i'm at work in a meeting or addresing a superior i speak "french from france" .. the point i'm trying to make is that i'm capable of adjusting my speech pattern to the environment that i'm in and so do others... sometimes people go on dates and maybe they start speaking "ghetto" because they feel more at ease but then again ..maybe it's an age thing .. as for the "thugs" that's another topic but i'm just curious to know if others ALWAYS speak properly ...or have i misunderstood the posts.
Good point Wildflower and I would agree, there are ceratin comfort zones that we get in and talk our various (for want of a better word)...dialects... heheh.
We all do this. What I am getting at isn't about that at all. I'm getting more at the full package deal characters that I have described. People whom have made this "ghetto" thing a lifestyle.
It is my belief that many, mostly of the younger generation, have made this a choice in that they have chosen to not behave within the norms rather they have chosen to behave outside the norms of society at large.
To better define this, they have taken on this MTV "gangsta rappa" image. Not only in how the speak on a day to day basis but in their behaviors in everyday interactions. Their behaviors and language are not appropriate in public (perhaps in private settings with their friends), but they are often displayed in public... foul language, threatening displays of body language and often without provocation, etc etc... There is a whole list of behaviors that follow suite.
Their were a few friends of my kids whom come over from time to time whom, did behave this way until I straightened them out and told them to behave normally without a chip on their shoulders or they could hit the door and not come back.
My description of "ghetto" is not simply language, but the full package deal. One that is combined with body language, dress and attitude. It would be those whom encompass the full range of this "type" of which I despise. Simply because the full mentality of it wreaks "thug" even if they really aren't. I think some of these kids think it is "cool" but it isn't "cool" at all when you show disrespect to others and especially when you walk around with a chip on your shoulder to intimidate others.
In a nutshell, it simply shows a level of immaturity that is beyond defining. Yes, we still have middle aged men behaving this way too...will they ever grow up? Couldn't tell you... heheh
Now, for me, I certainly don't want to be around a woman behaving or talking in the manners which I have described.
Also, one must keep in mind that I am not talking about colloquial dialects when I refer to speech. I am referring to street talk. If I went on a date with a young lady and she happened to say "This be the Shiznit...ya mean?" out in public... well.... a second date is unlikely unless she was simply kidding around.
I want to clarifying something in my post ....i was addressing the issue of ACTING and now i shall address communicaion... there are ways u speak to ur closest friends and then there are ways you communicate in the professional field... i believe all cultures have this ... when i'm home and i'm speaking to my parents the West indian comes out ..to an english speaking person this might sound "uneducated" but i'm just in my comfort zone...the same with my friends.. when i'm with my french speaking friends - i speak "quebecois" which is broken french and when i'm at work in a meeting or addresing a superior i speak "french from france" .. the point i'm trying to make is that i'm capable of adjusting my speech pattern to the environment that i'm in and so do others... sometimes people go on dates and maybe they start speaking "ghetto" because they feel more at ease but then again ..maybe it's an age thing .. as for the "thugs" that's another topic but i'm just curious to know if others ALWAYS speak properly ...or have i misunderstood the posts.
what if those women are being there selves does that make you shallow...tell me something my aunt is caucausian i never looked at her as being ghetto!! maybe you need to take a look ..maybe that is what you are attracting verses to what is attracted to you ..think try to change your outlook on white women respectively...
slidewinderq write: Assuming the embezzler is black, and assuming the investigator has an "all black people should act the same" attitude, would it then be correct to affect a "ghetto" manner to deal with the suspect, or is that being presumptuous?
I believe most of you are smart enough to know the difference.
I must agree.
An example is this:
I work with people whom have roots from all over the world and many from Africa.
I have a friend whom goes by the name of Kay because his real name (Tekestha)is hard for Americans to grasp right away. He is from Ethiopia. Anyhow, he happened to tell me a story about how he was approached by another (American) black male asking for a cigarette. He said he was sitting in his car at the time and simply rolled up his window and sped off. I asked him why? He said the man's body language was threatening and he couldn't understand much of his English except that he said he wanted a cigarette.
He told me that the man's behavior scared him and he asked me why some people behave that way here.
Now, considering that my friend is black, a cop speaking to him in Ghetto slang is going to terrify him and he will not understand what is going on.
I understand cops balance how they talk to certain individuals as necessary, but they shouldn't base it upon race but work on an individual basis.
I mean, after-all they could en-counter Eminem...hehehe
My brother-in-law is a sheriff here and one of my best friends is a State officer. I should bring this question up with them and see what they have to say.
PDXmuse write: Sam's post struck a chord with me. From my own experience I have seen some of the local police officers speak in front of the Rotary club about gang issues and then, on a ride along with the same officer, I have seen then "relate" to suspected gang members. Their vocabulary was quite different and they communicated well with both groups. In this instance it gets to be a communication thing. And they have sought first to understand, then to be understood.
That's a good point. In the leadership and speech classes I've taken, one of the things taught to us was sizing up an audience. This is a handy tactic to help minimize miscommunication between the speaker and the audience, as you didn't want to be talking over or under their heads. That's also part of what police officers learn at the academy.
However -using a police officer for example- when he talks to a suspected gang member is he attempting to relate/communicate to the suspect by adjusting his speech to suit the situation, or is he acting black/white/brown/red/whatever? It makes sense that a cop wouldn't tell a hardcore gangbanger "sir, could you please refrain from your unlawful transgressions.....it could have an adverse affect on your freedom".
If that same cop had to talk to someone white collar suspected of trust fund embezzlement, likely he would use a different manner of speech. Sizing up a situation is one thing. Entirely another to make groundless presumptions.
Assuming the embezzler is black, and assuming the investigator has an "all black people should act the same" attitude, would it then be correct to affect a "ghetto" manner to deal with the suspect, or is that being presumptuous?
I believe most of you are smart enough to know the difference.
I still maintain, as I've posted elsewhere, that adaptability, including in communication -verbal AND nonverbal- is a sign of an intelligent mind.
And that an effective communicator structures their message in a manner most likely to be understood by their target audience.
I (or any person) can speak and/or behave, i.e. ACT, as eruditely as my audience requires and my education allows. I (or any person) can also speak and/or behave, i.e. again ACT, as "ghetto" as my audience requires and a different sort of education (at times equally valuable as formal education) allows.
Does the adaptability of the ACT of communication make one a phoney? No. Not so long as the underlying principals of the message remain genuinely held by the speaker.
Is some of this word choice influenced by culture, region, and yes even race?
Does it have ANYTHING REMOTELY to do with intelligence?
Not so far as our preconceptions allow it to.
And is THAT often times influenced by what we "believe" about race, culture, or even region?
Case in point, a purebred yankee like me might ask of the once southern dwelling keihan if, with his persuit of education & speaking of "proper" English (something someone from England might challenge btw, lol) has he "gotten above his rasin??" LOL Ok kei... you know I'm just yanking your chain a bit, right? Because such expressions might sound "ignorant" to a northerner.
So you see, I'm chain tugging only for the effect of the point to be made.
I might point out that, though not from Florida & never having been, my own speech is often punctuated by the frequent y'all. Maybe it carried through my family from my West Virginian great granny... who knows?
Again hmmm... Maybe rather than allowing perceptions to condition us to see communication as "race," "culture," "region," "educated," "ig'nant," "proper," or "ghetto," and etc. we should take a closer look at our own perceptions and beliefs. Look closer at what motivates us and why. And yes, even take a closer look at our fears.
We may just find that such things have less to do than we believed with race, culture, region, education, etc. etc.
maybe we'll find that sometimes we make entirely too much importance of it all.
LOL Sam! I just saw this post.
I know where you are coming from. I have been there myself. I went to a primarily black school in Nashville, Tenn and of course some of that so called "slang" (that we develop in our youth) slipped into my vocabulary. Too much of it from movies, TV and MTV brainfrying I assure you. There is a point where you begin to realize that ..."hey I'm an adult and should behave like one". If I wish to succeed then I need to adapt to ways that are more professional and thus I can communicate on a broader spectrum (this is an intelligent approach rather than staying stagnant and limiting oneself).
However, I think the question is, more or less, that some of us aren't attracted to people whom maintain that type of speech into mature adulthood. We are especially not looking for that in a partner.
As Caramel had stated, we would prefer a partner whom uses and speaks proper grammar because, although it might not be indicitive of intelligence level, it certainly conveys someone whom is properly educated vs. someone whom is ignorant.
Furthermore, some of this slang has creeped into some folks' common vocabulary (mostly the young) and with this it cause problems in communication outside their normal circles. I can still talk to most southerners from the deep south and most northermost northerners in Canada and understand them perfectly. However there are some whom speak this so called "ghetto" that cannot even speak to people outside their own small circles and be understood fully.
For example, I had to call a company's customer service once and a young woman answered and she talked such with such a "ghetto accent" I could hardly make out a word she was saying. It was as foreign to me as Spanish...therefore I could make out a few words, but most of what she said was non-cohesive to me.
Also, although having grown up in Tenn, when visiting Knoxville I ran into a few of the "country boys" out that way and had the same problem. On both counts, I viewed the individuals as uneducated.
Perhaps they are not uneducated, but it is the first thing that is going to come to mind on first contact with individuals whom talk this way.
These things, as has been said, may likely be cultural however, you will often find those whom have grown up in these social circles whom do not speak in such a manner and can be fully understood.
Body language is another thing entirely.
I used to kick box and body language says a lot about a person's character and intent. These young punks whom hang out on the streets often make sure that you are aware that they are "tough and mean" by the way they carry themselves. Instead of behaving like a civilized person they behave as if the caveman still exists (I have to wonder). They use their body language as a weapon and they know it. It is not a subconscious thing (as a cultural behavior would be) but rather deliberate. In short, they use their body language to intimidate common people whom simply try to go about their lives on a daily basis.
I have been to a lot of places throughout the midwest, northeast and southeast and I have met more people within these communities (of all colors) whom did not behave nor speak in the ways that I am trying to describe. In fact, these types are in the minority and so I have a hard time believing that it is cultural. Again, my junior high and high school were about 80% black and most of my friends were therefore black. When we hung out, I never noticed any behavior that was too much different from my own. We all did have a bit of southern twang maybe hehe.
I'm a bit biased against street thugs so maybe that plays a part in why I feel the way I do, because the majority of those who act or behave "ghetto" (the way I perceive the word) are street thugs or of the "wannabe" variety. I see them too often and they come in all shapes, sizes and colors. They're the ones whom will shoulder you as they walk past in the supermarket (and then say something to you as if it were you whom did the shouldering); glare at you as you pass by and won't acknowledge your existence even if you acknowledge theirs.
I often find this street-talk plus the behavior patterns are synonymous with "thug". I'd like to be proven wrong, but my instincts have never proven me wrong.
I had an instance in Nashville, TN with a thug this past summer and my instincts proved me right and probably saved the lives of my children and myself. All of the patterns I have described were present.
The whole premise of this conversation drives me crazy. Skin color has absolutely nothing to do with it. Why would anyone want to be with someone who "acts" ghetto. (I'm going to assume ghetto means she has a bad attitude and doesn't want to take responsibility for her own life). I prefer someone with a good head on her shoulders....regardless of skin color. I honestly think some "brothas" are clueless, why on earth would you want to carry someone else?s dead weight around. I have another question....do you prefer a ghetto "acting" "white girl" or a nice down to earth "black girl".....because it's not even close with me.
I HATE GHETTO ACTING WHITE GIRLS I PREFER WHITE GIRLS WHO ACT THEMSELVES NO FAKE GHETTOFIED FEMALES ALOT OF BLACKMEN AGREE HOW ABOUT THE REAT OF YALL.
I have had this conversation a few times before now. White women of course, it's no new news that we are joked on when dating black males. Every black comedian has cracked on us, they have movies dedicated toward it, "White Chicks" and if you remember correctly the show "Whoopi", Whoopi's brother was dating a white woman that always said things like, "lemme ax you sumthin baby". She was the epitomy of Ghetto acting white women.
I sit back and watch women on interracial dating sites (coming from Interracialsingles) trying to act more black, or know more about being black to grab more attention. When in the end it would be nice to just see them be themselves. Now don't get me wrong from time to time I say or type "fo-sho" or I call men "cats", but that is because I've been around a particular black male for almost a year now and you kind of pick up the other person's lingo some times. I don't corn row my hair, I don't wear my hat sideways or wear pants fallin off my a$$. I saw on another site a link that sent you to white kids taking the ghetto look a bit far and looking very silly doing so.
Sam's post struck a chord with me. From my own experience I have seen some of the local police officers speak in front of the Rotary club about gang issues and then, on a ride along with the same officer, I have seen then "relate" to suspected gang members.
Their vocabulary was quite different and they communicated well with both groups. In this instance it gets to be a communication thing. And they have sought first to understand, then to be understood.
thanks silver...and i hope to see u here one day..as for cypangui ...u are right ...montreal is part of Quebec but is the most diverse culturally...i'm sure if i ventured far from the island I may not have all these positive things to say ...but the reason i mentioned it is that I'll would like to give a glimpse of what some progress that have been made in living in a multicultural society ...it's just to show others who read these posts and have FAITH, that progress is being made ... we still have issues with racism and I'm definitely not living behind rose-coloured glasses but in comparison to 30 years ago when my aunt first moved to montreal there has been positive changes and I just wanted others who do not have the life experience that i have ..see that there is hope