Preference vs. Shallow Romance Forward to friends

  • View author's info Posted on Oct 07, 2005 at 10:29 AM


    This was an interesting Point of view...

    Most people, in my experiences, who are over weight are in continued efforts to reduce their weight...

    So if they would prefer themselves to be thinner.. why aren't they deemd as being shallow?

    Not to say that Over weight people are not happy, but I know they are alot happier when they lose weight.

    Look at all the New Diets, and Low Carb stuff hitting the shelves... Seems like people are very much interested in being thinner...

    Is it your own self loathing that is projected into others you meet that perfer thin people? I mean because you dislike yourself and perhaps feel less worthy then you feel that OTHERS MUST FEEL that way about you as well...?????

    It is similar to what is experienced in many Minority groups who are subjected to racial prejudices...ex) If a black man dates a white women then it has to be casue he DOES NOT LIKE Black women or he feels Black women are not as valuable.... Although some Men might feel that way it is NOT an absolute and a person should be given the Benifit of the doubt.....
  • View author's info Posted on Oct 06, 2005 at 11:24 PM


    I believe it's a good thing that he knows he wouldn't be interested in a woman due to her size. That's simply a turn off for many people. I know from personal experience that men who wouldn't give me the time of day, but were suddently interested when I lost 50 pounds by taking diet drugs. It made me angry, but really we all are allowed our preferences, even if it puts us under the umbrella of shallow. I've certainly been guilty of that myself...met a guy online.....loved his mind, personality, voice....when we met he was a good bit heavier than his online pic and I just couldn't get past that. Color me shallow..not proud of it, but stepping up.
  • View author's info Posted on Oct 04, 2005 at 02:14 AM



    caramel_princess write:
    I think you all need to cut Waterlady some slack. She is not telling anybody what they should and shouldn't like, nor is she trying to change anyone's preference. She is simply stating that she wishes more people would get to know her and accept her for who she is as a person. Everyone in here has their own preferences, and that is fine. Have them, but understand where she is coming from as well. I do not see her launching a personal attack against anybody, but merely expressing things from her own perspective.



    Perspective is one thing and when someone informs you SEVERAL times that they are Mistaken about your feelings and yet they INSIST that they are Correct... that is when it becomes a JUDGMENT.

    I know I must have stated on atleast 3 different occasions in my posts that I do NOT feel that All over weight people are LAZY and unproductive...not capable of having a healthy life style.. and Yet she insists on stating that I do feel that way...

    Furthermore I have stated MANY times that my overall basis for my preference is ASTHETICS and NOT health based... and what I personally feel is a FIT...for man and a woman... I never once said that Overweight people are LESSER human beings yet she would call me judgmental (what judgment??) Yet she would STILL group me in with the people that would feel that way.

    I am not trying to give her a hard time for feeling a certain way.. I am only defending against her statements that I am prejudice, Judgmental, etc etc...
  • View author's info Posted on Oct 04, 2005 at 01:50 AM



    waterlady write:
    To both Sentory and J Davis
    I am not judging either of you. Please feel free to prefer what you prefer and not feel attacked. I was only addressing SPECIFIC comments that were made that I took offense to. I don't presume to attempt to change anyones mind or to tell them what to think. I was merely voicing my opinion...which apparently is not welcome.
    ***************************************

    Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but if your opinion is that I am Judgmental because I prefer slim women then aren't you JUDGING me? Opinions are fine but just because I point out what I disagree with doesn't mean I am saying that you aren't entitled to have an opinion. Or Attacking you... I thought this was the purpose ofa FORUM where we DISCUSS things... Comment and rebutt each other...

    ***************************************

    For you Sentory I do not presume to know what is in your heart. I merely pointed out that the two reasons you gave, IMO , were prejudicial.( not being able to support a healthy lifestyle, inactivity and unhealthy eating) All of the other reasons you gave to me are the same....to refuse to date somone based on ANY PHYSICAL property alone, IMO is prejudical and presumptuious. ( hair colour, height or anything else)

    ***************************************

    First of all I never said "( not being able to support a healthy lifestyle, inactivity and unhealthy eating)" WHERE ON EARTH DID YOU GET THAT FROM???
    So you are adding something into what was said and you are offended by that??...And Further go onto calling me Judgemental...and Prejudice???

    I am not attacking you but merely defending my preference aside from what you added in there is nothing JUDGMENTAL about MY particular preference...
    Now, I am not saying that people who have those feelings are not judgmental... I am just trying to demonstrate that there is a DIFFERENCE between people like me and People that you say offend you.

    ***************************************
    You again make a presumption that to be over what you deem to be a "healthy weight" is unhealthy and in fact, within the health community this has been proven to not always be true. (I was a Nuclear Medicine Technologist and still work in therapy and health care as well as the fitness industry) Often it has been proven downright wrong. I can out hike many people that you would think appeared to be more fit than I am. There are many persons that appear to be overweight that are very fit and have IDEAL blood pressure without medication.

    I know many slim persons with high blood pressure that live inactive and sedentary lifestyles and THIS has proven out to be more of a health risk than those overweight but healthy and active.
    ***************************************

    First of all waterlady, Perhaps it is just the angle of your Photo, but you certainly don't appear to be what I would consider OVER WEIGHT...
    Perhaps you are a bit thicker than I might perfer still But I just like small framed women... Like I said maybe it is the photo...

    But I certainly would not say that you are a LESSER person or a person of a lesser standard because you don't fit my preference of what I like in a woman PHYSICALLY...
    And I believe that is why you feel offended...

  • View author's info Posted on Oct 04, 2005 at 01:24 AM



    PDXmuse write:
    Since I have been drawn to men who are 5'6" as well as 6'3", who are very slender and some who are much heavier, some who are drop dead handsome and some whose looks have grown on me..I think I've determined for myself that looks aren't the be all and end all.

    I think it has more to do with self confidence of the person I'm drawn to..and if they fit with my values and lifestyle.

    I have a girlfriend who is very heavy and I don't choose to vacation with her because I am very active and often on vacation hike miles, ride horses, parasail, swim etc. and she is just not comfortable doing these things.I probably would not be drawn to a man who was very heavy for the same reasons.

    There are alot of other factors that go into choosing someone with which we wish to have a relationship. I probably wouldn't include nor exclude anyone based on one of those factors.



    Very Well put PDX...

    I also think it is what we as individuals deem as OVER WEIGHT...
    there is a large area to look at... On or two pounds over medical standards would still be deemed over weight... But there is a certain difference between 1-2, even 15-25 pounds over weight and 50-100 or more pounds over weight...

    I mean Obviously I am not speaking of someone who is over weight by medical standards but has a 15% body fat and is physically fit...

    I just don't see how anyone who is carrying around 50-100 pounds or more in extra weight can be considered HEALTHY... Just cause you aren't dying doesn't mean to are healthy.. That's like saying I am healthy except that I have Asthma...

    More often than NOT a person who is SIGNIFICANTLY overweight is limited in activity that a person, given all things equal except the weight, of a lesser weight would be able to do...

    But again, Like said for me it is more of the asthetics of a match... size weight comparrison to me... I just don't see how that is being JUDGMENTAL....
  • View author's info Posted on Oct 03, 2005 at 09:30 PM


    Hi Waterlady I hope you are still here to read this. I did not take offence to what you said. Like you I have my preferences, mine however are for a slender woman. And like you this is only a preference and I like all woman.

    I can understand where you may be hurt or offended if some people thought because you had extra weight that you were lazy or couch potato, or whatever.

    But I think you are better served by not having negative comments. I think it would be better if you created topics praising those men who DO appreciate a woman like you. Like "In praise of men who like larger women" or "Where are the men who ...".

    I believe this is much better than trying to change the mind of others as many don't listen. Also you will be happier and come across as a happier person.
  • View author's info Posted on Oct 02, 2005 at 03:35 PM


    I think you all need to cut Waterlady some slack. She is not telling anybody what they should and shouldn't like, nor is she trying to change anyone's preference. She is simply stating that she wishes more people would get to know her and accept her for who she is as a person. Everyone in here has their own preferences, and that is fine. Have them, but understand where she is coming from as well. I do not see her launching a personal attack against anybody, but merely expressing things from her own perspective.
  • View author's info Posted on Oct 02, 2005 at 12:38 PM


    To both Sentory and J Davis
    I am not judging either of you. Please feel free to prefer what you prefer and not feel attacked. I was only addressing SPECIFIC comments that were made that I took offense to. I don't presume to attempt to change anyones mind or to tell them what to think. I was merely voicing my opinion...which apparently is not welcome.

    For you Sentory I do not presume to know what is in your heart. I merely pointed out that the two reasons you gave, IMO , were prejudicial.( not being able to support a healthy lifestyle, inactivity and unhealthy eating) All of the other reasons you gave to me are the same....to refuse to date somone based on ANY PHYSICAL property alone, IMO is prejudical and presumptuious. ( hair colour, height or anything else)
    You again make a presumption that to be over what you deem to be a "healthy weight" is unhealthy and in fact, within the health community this has been proven to not always be true. (I was a Nuclear Medicine Technologist and still work in therapy and health care as well as the fitness industry) Often it has been proven downright wrong. I can outhike many people that you would think appeared to be more fit than I am. There are many persons that appear to be overweight that are very fit and have IDEAL blood pressure without medication.
    I know many slim persons with high blood pressure that live inactive and sedentary lifestyles and THIS has proven out to be more of a health risk than those overweight but healthy and active.

    JDavis...I addressed this issue..if you re-read my profile I quite clearly state that although I like the appearance of a larger man I LOVE ALL MEN AND THIS IS NOT HOW I CHOOSE MY PARTNER...therefore not shallow.

    This is to be my last entry. Have a nice life all. I no longer find this place fun.
  • View author's info Posted on Oct 02, 2005 at 08:00 AM


    Since I have been drawn to men who are 5'6" as well as 6'3", who are very slender and some who are much heavier, some who are drop dead handsome and some whose looks have grown on me..I think I've determined for myself that looks aren't the be all and end all.

    I think it has more to do with self confidence of the person I'm drawn to..and if they fit with my values and lifestyle.

    I have a girlfriend who is very heavy and I don't choose to vacation with her because I am very active and often on vacation hike miles, ride horses, parasail, swim etc. and she is just not comfortable doing these things.I probably would not be drawn to a man who was very heavy for the same reasons.

    There are alot of other factors that go into choosing someone with which we wish to have a relationship. I probably wouldn't include nor exclude anyone based on one of those factors.
  • View author's info Posted on Oct 02, 2005 at 05:39 AM


    Waterlady - you prefer larger men and call it preference.

    I prefer slender women - you call it shallow.

    double-standard ???????
  • View author's info Posted on Sep 30, 2005 at 10:44 PM



    waterlady write:
    JDavis......I am NOT telling you what to like....only that this preference to me is shallow....cause I have yet to have anyone give a reason other than they think someone larger is neither helathy nor active nor eats well or healthy.....that is the only part I take exception to. If you have some non superficial reason for choosing smaller fine....and you are free to like what you want....but when asked my opinion I will give it honestly.



    How is this "preference" requirement any different than someone being attracted to someone with RED hair? Or for a Black man to desire a White woman because he likes the skin contrasts?

    How is this any different than a Man who dates ONLY larger women?
    Or a Woman that is attracted to TALLER men???

    You have not been able to give a clear difference. Although Some people may Prejudge larger people as lazy or such... that doesn't mean every person that wants a thin woman feels that large women are lazy...

    I don"t know how esle to say it but I DO NOT FEEL THE WAY YOU THINK. And Yet I desire a Thin Woman.. I have given my reasons and you don"t accept them. It"s almost as if you know what is in my heart better than I do.

    The majority of over weight people I know are not diagnosed with any medical condition. Their weight is a result of poor eating habbits and poor excercise... This is in my experience PERSONALLY... Even with this I would still not say that all over weight people are LAZY not even to the ones I know who have poor eating habbits...

    It is my Opinion that being overweight in itself is not as healthy as being with in your medically prescribed weight range... BEING TOO THIN is also not healthy.

    This is not meant as offensive towards you, but I guess if feeling that way makes me superficial and judgemental then so be it and I guess all the medical journals are wrong as well.
    Again My mother is over weight... I know her to be very active and overall she is a healthy woman... HOWEVER she is over weight which in itself is not a healthy condition. As a result her blood pressure is on the border...

    BUT again... inherent health problems is NOT the reason why I choose to date thin women...

    You stated in your last post that you are not judging anyone....

    But infact you are. You are telling us what is in our own hearts....You stated that I am judgmental for prefering/ requiring a thin woman...

    You may still feel this way and it is all good cause I am not trying to force you to change, but Just point out that in that, you, yourself are PREJUDGING US about our reasons for wanting a thin woman.

    No hard feelings though
  • View author's info Posted on Sep 30, 2005 at 02:18 PM


    JDavis......I am NOT telling you what to like....only that this preference to me is shallow....cause I have yet to have anyone give a reason other than they think someone larger is neither helathy nor active nor eats well or healthy.....that is the only part I take exception to. If you have some non superficial reason for choosing smaller fine....and you are free to like what you want....but when asked my opinion I will give it honestly.

    And....FYI...I have dated 5'1 and 90 lbs....I like ALL men .....just that I prefer a large man. I am not ruling anyone out based on looks, size, hair colour, lack of hair or any other PHYSICAL property.

    Lastly - to EVERYONE...I was not mentioning my accidents for sympathy...I have risen above them and teach fitness and have a great life....I was merely suggesting that many of you are making assumptions about HOW or WHY someone is larger and I was telling my own story to illuminate. I was aslo only telling my story because people continue to write that a larger person is UNHEALTHY, INACTIVE and EAT ALOT and it is just plain NOT TRUE. I require NO SYMPATHY......I am a successful, idependent business woman IN SPITE of all I have been through.

    Continue to like what you like.....I was only adding my thoughts and not judging anyone for what they prefer.
  • View author's info Posted on Sep 30, 2005 at 11:34 AM


    Waterlady,

    Please don't take this the wrong as there is no offense meant by what I am saying...

    I don't know you but this is just an observation I have picked up about you and other people that have an issue with weight. (Not judging you at all)

    Seems that there is a tendency to be paranoid that someone doesn't like you because of your weight and that they are prejudging you as LAZY and FAT...

    No, I don't tend to be attracted to lazy people either But that means Lazy Skinny or Lazy fat... LAZY and FAT are two different terms and do NOT go hand in hand...

    It seems that it is the same mentality that some Minorities have when dealing with RACIAL Discrimination...

    I have a good friend that equates anything he deems negative that happens to him as Being "A BLACK THANG" No matter what it is...The Movie was sold out "They just didn't want a Black man in the theater..." Or He asks a guy for the time and the guy says he has no watch...." See he just didn't want to show me his watch cause I am Black and he thinks I might take his watch...."

    But you know I have noticed that Over weight people tend to do this too....Not to say that sometimes people don't do this to you... But How about giving someone the Benifit of the Doubt???

    I know you have made several posts in these forums that supports my observation... Is this something you have noticed about yourself? You seem to be very sensitive about the Subject and I suppose it is the same way I feel about women that will not give me the time of day cause I have a child...

    But I certainly would not deem them all SHallow and JUDGMENTAL although there are a lot of Judmental people that do discriminate me cause I have a child....
    We all have Preferences... Things that appeal to us more than other things so then you Might say that ALL PEOPLE are Close Minded and JUDGMENTAL...
  • View author's info Posted on Sep 30, 2005 at 11:28 AM



    caramel_princess write:
    No, I wouldn't call him shallow. I have my own physical preferences in men, so I'd be a hypocrite to call your friend shallow. I believe both physical and emotional attraction are important in a relationship. He likes what he likes. I see nothing wrong with that.



    Exactly.
  • View author's info Posted on Sep 30, 2005 at 11:16 AM


    Waterlady,

    I welcome your experience and perhaps I may learn something about myself.. and Although you may not agree you might be open minded enough to atleast understand why and Not condem those who desire Slim women...




    I don't feel that my perference is judgmental. at best, You might say Superficial and perhaps that I can swallow... But Judgmental???

    But for me, Asthetically speaking a Smaller woman is more appealing to me being that I am an average sized guy...
    I like a woman with a shape who I can Pick up and carry (without Injury)

    Just like Many women seek TALLER MEN.. Or Women that are short seek men that aren't so tall...
    Are they Judgmental??? NO!
    If a Woman who is 6 feet tall Judgemental becuse she REQUIRES a man that is TALLER that she is???? I truly don't see the difference.

    I am not discriminitory with my Requirements... I would not date a thin or slim woman who is taller than me either.... But then you might just say that it is a preference... but in fact it is no different than my desire for a slim woman.... You are prjecting something negative onto a very innocent preference... and THAT is Judgmental..




    Not every over weight person has a medical condition or Genetic Disorder...
    I also feel that many over weight people use these as excuses so that they don't feel like a failure...
    On the other hand I DO know that some disorders are Medically linked..

    Another thing is that What are you talking about when you say over weight??? Are you refering to 40-50 pounds or 100 or more??
    Being overweight is not healthy in itself so there is a difference between being healthy and leading a healthy life style... But I am not even refering to health issues... It is more about asthetics for me... and Just PLAIN Old Physics.

    I would also contend that a woman who is 5'2" and 100 pounds and a woman who is 5'2" and 300 pounds would not typically be of the same atheletic ability in certain terms... There are certain activities that one could do and not the other simply because of size difference.....

    Bottom line is that there is not judgment involved when I says I desire a slim woman... It boils down to ASTHETICS and what I view as a good fit....

    Man should be taller and larger than the woman... It is a traditional idea of what a couple should look like... It may not always fit what you see and I am not one to judge one for making a choice to date only large women or saying they are unfair and judgmental against Slim women..

    Large Brest happen not to appeal to me so much and a lot of larger women have Larger Brest...

    I don't know perhaps it is a feeling of security in my "MALE ROLE" in a relationship... I should be larger and the protector??? I don't know I am really grasping now... but it is what it is...

    NOW, there are some men with ill misconceptions about Large women and are Judgmental and crude but don't group me in there with that bunch
  • View author's info Posted on Sep 30, 2005 at 09:40 AM


    If people did not have a preference as to who they found attractive, then it makes sense to me that everybody would be attracted to ...well everybody. I am sure we all have heard the old saying, "if you don't know where you are going, any road will do".

    Your friend does not need permission to make his own decisions. It's not called being shallow, it's called being a grown azz man. Not trying to sound harsh, but when you are willing to sacrafice your own happiness for the sake of not being shallow, what else is left?

    I, myself, am attracted to the "model" type women. I don't have the time to BECOME attracted to any other type, and would not be inclined to do so even if I did. Nothing against women who do not fit into my model category, but I like what I like. Does this make me shallow? Would I be less shallow if I preferred heavier women? Am I any less of a man because I see a "package instead of a person"? Truthfully, I don't give a da*n. As I stated on another post, I would rather drink muddy water from a hollow log than to settle for anything less than what I want. That's being true to myself. (Raise your glass to this)!!

    Futhermore, who in the He*ll gave one person the right to tell another who they should or should not find attractive. That pis*es me off. If a person has hang-ups about their own looks, appearance, weight, whatever, then that person should deal with it. He/She should not force his/her beliefs about attractiveness on the rest of society. If something happened to you in the past, **TUFF** Guess what? The world still goes 'round and 'round. **Insecure, jealous, m/f's**, but I digress.

    One more thing before I get out of here. There are some people that talked about weight and how some people might prejudge overweight people. Personally, I gives a rats azz as to how, or why a person became overweight. To quote Jay-Z, "what you eat don't make me sh*t.
    Everybody has to look in the mirror and be happy with what he/she sees. When "YOU" are able to do this... When "YOU" look in the mirror and find "YOURSELF" attractive, then what the rest of society thinks and who the rest of society finds attractive won't matter. Now will it???

    Have a nice f*king weekend, and put away that Rocky Road ice cream.

    RSVP out!!
  • View author's info Posted on Sep 30, 2005 at 09:18 AM


    No, I wouldn't call him shallow. I have my own physical preferences in men, so I'd be a hypocrite to call your friend shallow. I believe both physical and emotional attraction are important in a relationship. He likes what he likes. I see nothing wrong with that.
  • View author's info Posted on Sep 29, 2005 at 08:59 PM


    Why do people keep telling me and others what we should and shouldn't like?

    Waterlady - I do feel bad for your injury.

    But none of us are telling you what you should like. In your profile you list you want a bigger man. Answer this: Is that shallow? Then why attack the guy who wants skinny?

    Hmmmm.
  • View author's info Posted on Sep 29, 2005 at 01:40 PM



    Sentoryu279 write:
    People desire certain things for different reasons.. To deem everyone who desires a slim woman Shallow is UNFAIR to say the least..


    While it may be UNFAIR the reasons people give ARE judgemental.....(that I have seen so far) look at your own words....

    I am one who prefers a slim woman. Actually it is almost more of a requirement... I mean to say that A preference is something that you would Like but consider other...

    I am an active guy. I don't eat 100% healthy 100% of the times but I eat good. I have a good balance between what goes in and what gets burned off. I want a woman that can contribute to and support me in this lifestyle.

    Furthermore.. I am not that Big of a guy.. 69" and 170 pounds with about 10% body fat... Why would it be shallow for me to desire something proportionately Similar in a woman...


    a REQUIREMENT.....sounds pretty closed minded and judgemental to me....

    I fail to see how a woman that might be bigger than you could not contribute and support your healthy lifestyle. I eat healthy almost ALL of the time because I HAVE to and I work out more than 14 hours a week. I am active and love horseback riding and walks......

    I don't know if this helps and I am not attacking your stance.....but when asked my opinion...even your words ring out with JUDGEMENT to me.

    I respect many of your opinions [though not all :) ] and I also respect that you try not to fight and to explain your situation...but as this is so personal to me I might have a hard time ever seeing your side to how it is not judgemental to assume that someone larger does not have a healthy or active lifestyle...

    Not that it matters but I read in Men's Health today that people that are OBESE actually take more than 15 minutes longer than thinner counterparts to "register full" in their brains. This work has been confirmed with PET scanning and demonstrates why some people eat more and appear to have less willpower...but we are not talking about people who got overweight by eating their way there in this post.
    We are talking about the sheer ASSUMPTION that if someone is overweight they ate or sat their way there.
  • View author's info Posted on Sep 29, 2005 at 01:31 PM



    loner1115 write:

    True enough beauty fades, but I guess I just don't believe that whole thing about a person starting to "look more attractive because you have gotten to know them".

    Loner......I understand how you feel...and truly if I had not experienced this very thing myself I might also feel as you do. I have discovered, over time and with experience, that there are many different things that make a man attractive to me and looks are the smallest portion. I am not suggesting that someone should be with someone they are not attracted to.....having said that I have learned it is possible to BECOME attracted to one after sharing time and getting to know someone.

    I hope that clarifies what I meant by what I said. :) Always good to see you loner!
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